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A look at defense values (maxes?)



Just for sake of discussion, here is a typical
max set of DVs aside from magical enhancement:

Chris, Orc/Lizard Warrior
Str 18
Per 18
Agi 18*
Wil 18*
		DEFENSE VALUES
		Combat	Missile	Grapple
Mobility	  3/       3/      3
Agility           4/       4/      4
Str               3
Per                        3
Wil                                4
Longsword         1        0       1
Superplate        8        5       2
Superhelm         2        2       0
Shield            4        4       1
_______________________________________
Total:           25       21      15

(maybe the helm should still be 1/1/0...but adamant
plate/shield would give slightly higher numbers..
add 2/2/0).

This means that there are some very powerful defensive
magical items in the game.  I know there is no shortage
of multiple-finesse effect Iron Defense/Shimmer items.

As far as Mods having a maximum = DV Stat, no probs there.
I don't think DVs should have that maximum though.  If
you have no magic..they have a maximum...it depends on
how much crap you're willing to put on. 

Reasons for higher DVs than 25:

1) shloads of magic acquired from dead companions and
from bullying your way to the magic hoard (my personal fav)
Who has that +10 CDV sword anyway?

2)  buying/acquiring stats of 20 or higher

3)  Mutates as common gifts from NPCs or from Joe's water mage
(thanks, Joe.  *grin*)

4)  Body swapping into a mutated rock-hard body.

5)  Are there any others?

CDV 42 without activating any more magical items/spells is
the highest I know of.

Also, as far as nesting spells is concerned...I have been
told by Ye Olde Campaign Moderator that "waxes and wanes
are stackable"..so I would see Iron Defense as stackable in
the same manner.  One adds STR, one subtracts STR...so why
not add DV in a like manner?  One iron defense may not
seem like much...but three at 4x finessed would be
quite a blessing.

-Pat

-- 
____________________________________________________
Patrick C. Collins      drunsen@ecicnet.org
Process Engineer and Learner of Life

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I would have to say that if we are going to place a limit on modifiers, we
should also put a limit on defense values.  We warriors with a 22 mod need
them to have a decent chance at some of the nasties coming at us.  As a GM,
I consider a warrior with a mod of 10 reasonable.  However, even with this
mod, I have encounter several characters who are untouchable.  If I have to
limit my actors and the status quo for DV is maintained, I can see some
characters who will never be hit except on a natural 20.  This would also
have the effect of making warriors useless because they will not be able to
perform multiattacks because they will have to use their skill to even have
a chance to hit.  In these cases, a mages would be the only way that these
characters can be challenged.

I am also wondering having more than one spell affect a character's defense
value violates Dan's metarule that the gain from a spell or ability must be
porportional to the amount of experience spent on the ability (correct me
if I am wrong).  In these cases, the character is linearly increasing his
DV with a linear increase in experience.  From what I understand of the
underlying mechanics, for each increase in the DV, the amount of experience
to acheive that change should be greater than the last change -- going from
+2 DV to +3 DV should take more experience than going from +1 DV to +2 DV
(again correct me if I am wrong).

----------
> From: Shyryly Yshl <shyryly@geocities.com>
> To: Steve Ames <steve@ns1.cioe.com>
> Cc: gmlist@ns1.cioe.com
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Steel tech and weapons]
> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 10:42 PM
> 
> There are no restrictions/associated stats for Mods.  That would've
turned up in my rule
> bug hunt way back when (remember that one, Wright?  The two sheets of
lesser-known rules
> that were unused and if used, played wrong [though the 'wrong' variant
was best])...
> 
> Hm.  Who all had copies of those weird rules?  I bet I have that
somewhere...  most of
> those would be great candidates for fixes/clarifications...I think
Wright, Brian, and Ster
> did.  Anyone else?
> 
> Anyhow, a) MODs don't have a stat, and b) they should.  I'd suggest the
associated DV stat
> be the cap.  This would give a bit more reason to be, oh, say, a -strong-
warrior.  i.e.
> STR for CMod, PER for MMod, and WIL for GMod.
> 
> -Jamie
> 
> ===
> 
> Steve Ames wrote:
> 
> > Yeah... Jevan is wrong. There isn't any base for mods. Historically
> > its been played using the save one as the corresponding DV, but the
> > book says nothing... I think.
> >
> >                                                 -Steve
> >
> > > Hmm..are they?  that opens up a whole can of worms if they are. 
Anyone
> > > else know anything about this?
> > >
> > > Wright
> > >
> > > > I just remembered...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Aren't mods int based skills?
> > > > Should they be?
> > > >
> > > > Jevan F.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Wright Frazier wrote:
> > > >
> >
> 
> 

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