Re: FW: Hirudo as PC's

[Steve Ames <steve@ns1.cioe.com>]

> 	It is neither morality nor convenience which cause the 
> restriction of Hirudo's from game play. What you are overlooking 
> here is the fact that we play this game to have fun. When 
> the majority of potential hirudo adventurer players attempt 
> to play a hirudo, we end up with fights, anger and people 
> being really shitty to each other. I have had to deal with 
> this situation a number of times over the years, even back 
> when people were clamoring to play vampires.

The largest disruptive problem with Hirudo that I can see is
that people believe there is a problem. A hirudo causes a little
chaos and their objectives are not always in keeping with the
parties. Whos' is? Everyone has their own objectives. 

A hirudo might kill you, a scroggite might rape you. Socially we
all know which is more acceptable :)

> 	Yes, I know they can be interesting to play.... To the 
> player. But they are absolutely poison to the other people 
> in the campaign. 

I've heard this for years. I've never actually seen this poison.
(Lyle, now would be a good time to toss in your good example).

> Yes, some players could play them in the proper manner, 
> making them subversive, chaotic and subtle enough to 
> survive.... But not most. And when we deny the ability to 
> play hirudo to anyone... we deny it to all.

I'd kind of like to see that tested... but not at the risk of
ruining a lot of people fun. With the simple phrase 'you cannot
start as a hirudo' you already make it controlled. Only those people
who try really hard every become hirudo and then not before they
are a respectable rate. To become a hirudo you have to convince a
hirudo (who has the ceremonies group of spells that he bought at
base 900 up to rank 6) to turn you into one. The eep cost will stop
most players from doing it, so look to the GMs... I'd say if a GM
creates a problem, its his job to remove it. A Hirudo is subservient
to his master. This introduces potential plot points and certainly
provides control. This whole thing _CAN_ be handled in game terms.
Anything else is what Jevan says it is... artificial.

> 	There is a LOT of diversity in Jaern... much more so than 
> any other campaign I have seen. The system itself is molded 
> to not limit your choices. But in this instance... have some 
> consideration for all of us whom would bear the brunt of this 
> particular choice and let it go. 

I don't play from the 'deal with it' viewpoint. I've never even
uttered the words. If theres a problem, fix it. Improvement is
always to be sought and good enough... isn't. If your saying its
a bad idea because the GMs are weak and/or unorganized, lets fix it.

Hypothetical situation. Someone has a Hirudo fetish and plays as if
they were a Hirudo already. 9 out of 10 players will believe anything
becuase they beleive that players don't lie :) Is this person less
disruptive because he doesn't have Hirudo spells? He still causes
chaos, still worships rudri, still tries to subvert people. How does
giving this person a few spells, and a master, make them more
disruptive. As they are they are loose cannons and could do anything.
A Real Hirudo would have consequences form inside their religion (just
like other priests).

If its a roleplaying issue it shouldn't be fixed with rules. I belive
this decision, and every other, should lay with the people who "bear
the brunt of it" (ie the GMs). I'd personally like to see the temple
of Scrogg have a little more stigma attached to it. And the temple of
Isis not be so money grubbing and follow their calling. But hey, you
can't have everything.

On a related topic... what about atena? Is a priestess of atena anything
more (or less) than a women who has been struck blind by her visions?
I would (and have) let players play this out. In game terms this means
that they character is blind (with all of the penalties of blindness) in
exchange for becomeing my plot tool. And the player had fun with it.

Then again... I talk to much and have definately handed out my share
of "unbounded" items and abilities. Though, in my defense, I (as a GM)
was able to still control my game and, I believe, everyone still had
fun. Did cause a bit of a problem when I ended a 6 month long
continuing adventure and some other GM had to deal with them :) Hey,
wait... not my fault... some other GMs ended it for me *grin*

						-Steve