A John-quality Spew (was: Re: All this parry stuff)

[John Hogg <johnhogg@laf.cioe.com>]

On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Wright Frazier wrote:

> Is there any point to adding the skill?  Will people buy it and will they
> get value for the xp they spend?  How often is the grapple defense option in
> wrestling used?  How often is dodging even puchased?  Is this going to add a
> lot of confusion and complexity for little or no return?
>

Actually used the grapple DV boost a couple of times with Benoit, though,
had I initiave, I'd certainly use the skill in the first round to either
boost my "to hit" until I bought more MOD, or for the extra strength to
break or a cosh.

I don't know if dodging is so rare because missle weapons are rarely used,
or that you're rolling 4d6 to simply offset an elf's racial ability :)
 
> If you have to have it, make it very simple, and base it out of the weapon
> skill itself.  Run it like you do with the wrestling skill option for
> defense.  That way you don't have to worry about to much complexity.
> 
> As steve said, complexity is bad.
> 
> Wright
> 
> 
> 
I don't have a big problem with that, except it misses the goal of giving
the warrior something new and effective to do (more the new portion) in
this case.

As far as parrying being mega ... and taking a multiattack check over
parrying ... why would I sacrifice 1-3 attacks in the place of getting +2
to +6 to my CDV against the typical combat mod of 10 warrior?

If I successfully multiattack and hit, I, MAYBE have to take 2 rounds of
punishment.  If I successfully make my parry check, He's still +4 to +8 to
hit me with his 2-4 attacks a round ... maybe I live another round or 2,
but I've just stretched the time I need to kill him out to 5-6 rounds ...
not good for me :)

Don't look so much as parry being a counter to CWS ... it's not ... very
few people regularly use their CWS for bonuses to hit when they can get a
reliable +1 to hit at a fraction of the cost with combat MOD.  

I was initially going to jump on the bandwagon allowing an either-or
approach to parrying vs attacking, but I keep coming back to combat MOD.

I wouldn't spend eeps on a parrying skill that kept me from swinging my
weapon, were it an external skill ... I WOULD spend my eeps on something
that provided a BONUS to my DV as combat MOD is a BONUS to hit (and
purchasing DV exactly like MODs is distasteful)

With the exception of some ganked-out poisoned shiv or something, I'd
never use the parrying option if it were encapsulated into CWS.

(oooh, other thought ... do I want to be the parrymeister with the d2
shank, or with the d1 buckler if we base it off of weapon type ...
decisions, decisions)

Here's another goofy thought as far as basing the skill off of a
particular weapon's cost, rather than blanketing it (not necessarily a bad
thought, as I can think of some rather flamboyant applications,
unfortunately, I can also think of some munchkin ones)

Parrymeister Jones:

The rate 12 warrior carrying a 1-handed d10 weapon and a buckler would be
as effective as a rate (30) warrior in the following scenerio:

wimp warrior has spent just over 2 ratings (5130 eps) on his buckler CWS
or his buckler parry skill (assuming base cost of 30 for either) to get
it up to 18.

He's also spent 8 ratings (20500 eps) on DP for a total of 40, and just
over 1 rating on Combat MOD (3000 eps).

End result he'll parry for a +8 to his DV very regularly, and still attack
once per round for 1d10 damage with a +5 to hit.


Hackwaler the Grim:

Then we take reasonabley buff warrior (for rate 17) with 40DP (8R), +8
combat MOD (3R), and a long-sword skill of 13 (6R) ... we equip in exactly
the same manner as the wimp warrior, save replacing the buckler with a
shield that garners a +3 to CDV.

End result, he'll either parry for +6 (if the skill's encapsulated in CWS)
and attack once per round for 1d10 of damage with a +8 to hit, or he'll
multiattack for 4 attacks total (fairly regularly) with a +8 to hit.


Situation one ... Hackwaler goes defensive

Hackwaler ends up going even-up against Parrymeister's defensive bonus,
and gets one attack for 1d10

Parrymeister ends up going even-up against Hackwaler (comparing DV bonuses
for shields)

Situation two ... Hackwaler tees off

Hackwaler rips off 4 attacks a round going even-up against Parrymeister's
DV

Parrymeister uncorks one manly attack a round at a relative +3 to hit (+5
bonus -2 for difference in shield size)


i.e. if everyone parrys based on weapon cost, and negating any weapon
skill roll (excepting perhaps quickdraw), spend 2 ratings on your buckler,
and be a parrymeister, and you're done.

However, if one opts to not parry, and instead multiattacks, one will
STILL far surpass one's opponent.