Re: archery commentary

[Wright Frazier <khelek@ns1.cioe.com>]

Ummm...combats _RARELY_ start at more than 200 feet.  I.e.the Gm doesn't
even give you the option to see the enemy until then.

Further, folks, monsters and characters have more than 20 or 30 dp.
Further, they have more than a 10 MDV.  Few characters have high missile
mods, missile weapons, regardless of range just aren't nearly as
deadly as melee weapons.  It is insane to even consider them nearly
as deadly.  I'll _GLADLY_ face your 2-4 archers with these weapons before
I face 2-4 guys with longswords and comparable skill ranks.  I may
have to get plinked at a few times on the way there, but I will
gleefully accept that instead of having those guys get 2 rounds of
the buzzsaw insanity that is melee combat, or god forbid I have to
face a marine with some skill.  At least I'd get an action against the
Archer and warrior, the marine would just grab me and his buddy would
kick my ass as I tried to break free, and with the ludicrous ease that
you can grapple someone, those 2-4 marines are gonna whip the livin
crap out of me.

You people are putting way too much stock in the power of a missile
weapon.  They are one thing, and one thing only for adventurers, and
that is softeners.  You shoot the bad guy once or twice and then
you go at it.

If a party is facing a group of archers, they are frankly going to
stand a _MUCH_ better chance of survival than if they faced a like
number of skilled swordsmen or marines.  Further they are idiots
to charge a group of archers over the 700' range.  Its either a
GM screw, or the party has something(horses, fly, hawksoar) that
allows them to close is quickly, or they are doing a head on
assault on a fortifcation.  And if they are doing a head on assault
on a fortifcation, they deserve to die.

Also, this is not AD&D where missile weapons are a bit over powered.
You can't fire 2 a round without some pretty potent magic to back
you up(speed) and some skill, and then you are still gonna get
1 attack a around. 

And so what if a party gets 2 or 3 archers with these weapons?  I've
seen parties with 2-3 people capable of casting fireball, and you
don't have to do anything extra besides fumble along on an adventures
for 3 or 4 rates to get that.  Or lightning bolt which is _FAR_ easier
to get and more deadly than a bow or crossbow.  Or hell, buy minibolt
for your 300, 600, or 900 xp and you can whip out the damage like
a mad monkey at a higher rate of fire.

Further, wild predators do not charge you from 200, 300, and sure as hell
not 700 feet. =)  They get close covertly and jump on you.  It wastes
energy to run that far just to start the attack.  Even the fastest
animal in the world(cheeta) doesn't do that.  It waits for its prey
to come closer to it before pouncing.

You don't have to come up with stronger and more creative creates, just 
intellegently use what you have and come up with more if you want
too.

Just because a weapon has the range to shoot so far does not mean combat
is going to be initiated at that range.  People are sneaky bastards, and
will seek to employ what tactics are best suited for them.  If they
have missile weapons and aren't masters, they'll start closer and use'em
as softeners.  if they have'em and are skilled,t hey'll go for difference
_IF_ they notice the party from that far away.  And if they have melee
weapons, they'll try and get as close as possible before pouncing.

I've also GM'ed with higher rate of fire weapons with longer ranges,
and the S/M/L range penalties, and yeah my bad guy got squitted and
I mauled the odd party.  However I like tot hink folks had fun and
we all learned and improved our playing a bit.  I learned make bad
guys a bit more intellegent, and they learned don't be stupid.

The notion that people must close into melee combat is very false.
People _MUCH_ prefer killing from a distance.  Its safer that way,
and forcing people into hand to hand combat only makes for a more
lethal and less realistic game.

Wright


> -----Original Message-----
> 
> [Daniel Lawrence]  Rob,
> 
> 	But it is so concivable that a party could get 2 or 3 archers with these weapons. So in a place of reasonable line-of-site they are very very well protected from about anything they might encounter. With all the additional rounds of fire before an opponent could possibly get into range (like wild animals) there is little that could face such a group. Which means that I have to come up with stronger and much more creative creatures.... beyond what nature may design, to give a group of adventurers a challenge. 
> 
> 	I HAVE GMed with a higher bow firing rate, and with a longer range, and with the triplet of short/medium/long range affecting the to hit rolls in the past when we were designing AQ. That is why the ranges and fire rates are set the way they are today.
> 
> 						dan
>