Re: Elesina

["Kris Ames" <kris@cioe.com>]

As for why I posted this to the group, you raised a question about
my and other people's ethics in regards to a character being
resurrected.  You raised this question in front of the entire group.
 I think it is my right to put all rebuttal/talk about this question
in the open. I am sick of accusations or innuendoes starting
publicly and then the resolution happening privately.  Assuming a
satisfactory resolution happens in private then the other 15 people
who heard the original accusation, do not see the resolution and are
left with the possibility that Kris with the help of her friends
cheated.  I have always played strictly by the rules and err on the
side of being too harsh with myself.  All postings sent to me on
this subject will find their way to the list in which I was first
accused.

Now as to the lightening bolt, I remember it was a mini bolt (maybe
it was a lightening bolt).  It was done when the cook ordered me out
of the Kitchen.  There was no refusal on my part to leave, but he
did IMMEDIATELY advance at me with a meat cleaver and took a swing
(My character didn't even have a knife on her).  I viewed that as
hostile.  The GM then ruled that the minibolt (or lightening bolt)
"ARCED" due to the pots and pans in the room and did damage to
people other than the target or in the direct line of the target.  I
might add that that is an incorrect ruling.  Lightening bolts in AQ
can't do that or we would not wear metal armor.

Now as to separating player feelings from Characters or GMing I
think you need to evaluate your behavior and how you do either of
these things.  If I was going to take my personal feelings and bring
them into character game I would have taken my resurrected
character, played her, and had her hunt down all Lyle characters and
kill them or some other equally ludicrous action.  The fact remains
that "Lyle" got offended at something Kris was doing and took it out
in game.  You don't like it when people or characters make fun of
situations and took it into your own hands in game as well as
encouraged other players to do actions that were contradictory with
their characters motivations.  If people feel I take things too
personally Lyle, just get a vote I'll stop GMing in addition to the
fact that I have already stopped playing since the incident which
involved bogus GMing as well as role playing on the part of other
people.  But if you do take that vote lets let everyone vote on
whether they trust you to impartially GM or play as well.  I'll
abstain from voting on either issue.  If you don't call this vote, I
expect to NEVER HEAR ANOTHER WORD FROM YOU ON THIS SUBJECT (Elesina
or my immortality/integrity)

-Kris
----------
> From: Lyle H Janney <lhjanney@adpc.purdue.edu>
> To: 'Kris Ames' <kris@cioe.com>
> Cc: 'Steve Ames' <steve@ns1.cioe.com>
> Subject: RE: Elisina
> Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 1:46 PM
> 
> Eh, okay Kris.  Whatever.  Hmmm, wait.  No, not whatever.  I took
this
> offline from the list to keep the conversation from the point of
my letter
> on between you, me, Steve and the fence post.  You didn't need to
go
> screaming about it on the list as it has absolutely nothing to do
with that
> forum.
> 
> As a rebuttal to your note, you have the incident mostly correct
in your
> memory, but not entirely (at least, not as I recall; but then
again, my
> memory is not perfect either).  As I recall, our subgroup would
have been
> content to let Elesina go on without further response to her games
if she
> had followed the order of the Galley Cook when he ordered her out
of the
> galley.  She refused and when he sought to make her leave, she
cast a
> lightning bolt at him.  However, due to the incredibly close
quarters of the
> ships galley, our whole subgroup was caught in the bolt and took
damage.
> Trust me, a third of the party took damage from the lightning
bolt.  If my
> adventurer in particular hadn't taken that damage, he would have
survived
> the poke Difuge gave him with the shank doused in poison, which, I
might
> add, was never described as having a slick layer of goo coating it
(Martin
> only died by a handful of points).
> 
> Next, Martin and those he was adventuring with, whom he trusted,
had never
> seen a Hirudo up close, so the "caricature" could just as well
have been the
> real thing.  We were just trying to keep our out of character
knowledge from
> interfering with our adventurer knowledge.  Also, our primary
concern was
> that a number of other party members were acting awfully
suspicious, and
> more over, acting as if Hirudo were okay people.  This was very
counter to
> the whole mission, so that would explain our accusations; of
course, Elesina's
> "caricature" didn't help matters at all.
> 
> Finally, I do apologize for forgetting about any stink I may have
raised a year
> ago regarding this situation.  Like I said, my memory is
imperfect.  But then
> again, it looks like you are still harboring ill feeling yourself
about the whole
> thing, and moreover, based on your posting, those feelings are
founded upon
> poorly remembered facts of the situation.  Please, at least own up
to the fact
> that Elesina is at least partially to blame for that night.  I
would certainly bet
> that showing up in any of the larger majority of bars, acting like
a Hirudo, and
> then lightning bolting a handful of the patrons would get you
pretty much the
> same response.
> 
> Kris, I came over to your place after you called me at 5am later
that morning,
> crying into my ear, because I thought you were taking the whole
thing far too
> personally and I still wanted to maintain some form of friendship
with you.  I
> still do, but it looks like you still harbor personal feelings on
the issue.  If you
> are not able to separate game issues from personal issues, just
tell me and I
> will be sure to never even think about playing in an adventure
where you are
> playing or GM'ing, and I would ask that you not sign up on an
adventure that
> I am GM'ing for the same reason.
> 
> Lyle
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Kris Ames [SMTP:kris@cioe.com]
> Sent:	Friday, August 21, 1998 1:12 PM
> To:	gmlist@cioe.com
> Subject:	Elisina
> 
> Okay Lyle,
> 
> 1.  I didn't lightening bolt anyone or do a SINGLE POINT OF DAMAGE
> TO ANYONE IN THE PARTY. No lightening bolts were cast by me.
> 
> 2.  The oh so lovely adventurers and an actor who murdered me
> decided to dump the body overboard then changed you minds and
tried
> to grab it back when you realized that Difuge, Carl and Dom were
> outside.  Carl grabbed the body went immaterial and left.
> 
> 3.  You were actually the ones making a mockery of the mission
> because you kept accusing party members of being hirudo and knew
> nothing about anyone.  These accusations were made because PLAYERS
> not characters knew that a couple of the people on the mission
have
> played Hirudo.  Talk about taking out of game knowledge and
> abusing/using it.  My CHARACTER viewed this as crap and using
> phantasmal water transmogrify made herself look like a CHARICATURE
> of a Hirudo (BIG pointy teeth, pasty complexion...etc all cartoon
> style).
> 
> 4.  The only reason Elesina "died" is because
> 	a.  She refused to kill a bunch of innocents to get out of a bad
> situation (these same innocents later held the sword against her
> throat and "set to kill" on the command of your character who had
> her pinned).
> 
> b.  The magic item database had been corrupted and loaded with a
> version that was 3+ months out of date and a magic item type thing
> done to HER BODY was not there so the GM ruled she "left the item
at
> home"
> 
> 5.  You brought up this whole SHIT a year ago when you heard she
was
> resurrected a year ago and you were answered then the same way.
> 
> 6.  Greg was just using my character name as an example of a
> character who uses fireballs and Elesina had nothing to do with
the
> discussion at hand.
> 
> 
> -Kris
> 
> ----------
> > From: Lyle H Janney <lhjanney@adpc.purdue.edu>
> > To: 'steve@ns1.cioe.com'; 'kris@cioe.com'
> > Subject: RE: Team Tactics
> > Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 11:54 AM
> > 
> > Uh, okay.  Thanks, I guess.  But the question wasn't about my
> > adventurer.  It was about the disposition of the body that
> belonged
> > to an adventurer that was making a mockery of a mission that
many
> > of the other party members where taking seriously (after all,
> Hirudo
> > were to be feared and despised), and who later impersonated a
> > Hirudo and afterwards lightning-bolted a third of the party in
> close
> > quarters (it's true, the world _is_ full of a**holes).  If Dan
ran
> it, then
> > that's the way it is, but I thought for certain that the cadre
of
> Ra priests
> > on board the ship had something to say about the disposition of
> the
> > actual body.  Then again, what happened _after_ that night is
> little of
> > my concern since my part ended when my character died as a
result
> > of his enforcement of what he believed to be proper consequences
> to
> > the actions performed against him, and those few fellow
> adventurers
> > he trusted, by the aforementioned adventurer (despite my
personal
> > feelings for Kris, herself).  But, I guess, I do appreciate the
> fact that
> > you guys discussed the option nonetheless.
> > 
> > Lyle
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Steve Ames [SMTP:]
> > Sent:	Friday, August 21, 1998 11:30 AM
> > To:	gmlist@cioe.com; 
> > Subject:	Re: Team Tactics
> > 
> > > PS Lyle the reason we kept giving examples of why it was
> necessary
> > > is because in your last post you were still calling it a
crock. 
> > > Also Elesina was resurrected under Dan and I retired her.  She
> had
> > > no desire to adventure any more because the world was full of
> Ass
> > 
> > For what its worth Lyle... we had a pretty lengthy discussion on
> > resurrecting your character that killed Elesina or not. Aside
from
> > the godlike thrill we get over holding someone's potential
> resurrection
> > in our hands, we felt that some benefit could be gained from
your
> > resurrection. However in the end we couldn't justify the
> expenditure
> > since you weren't really all that useful of an adventurer (to
us).
> > But beleive that I only speak the truth when I say that if we
> could
> > have justified it you would also have been resurrected... a
dozen
> > times :)
> > 
> > 						-Steve
> > 
>