RE: tackling (was Re: anything i wsay..)

[Foo <fooboy@laf.cioe.com>]

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*Joel Gunderson                             fooboy@laf.cioe.com*
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On Thu, 13 May 1999, Steve Ames wrote:

> 
> I'm expecting to be tackled also but for some reason you get to
> hit me, stand up and swing a sword 5 times while I curl into a
> little ball and wonder where my mommy went. *tisk* Free round
> stuff is _BAD_. Say the person loses a round after being tackled
> that at least keeps tackling from creating exceptions in the system.
> 

That still gives the person attacking them a free round, Steve. 

Example:  I tackle you...you lose a round.  On the round you are stunned,
I get up.  On the round you get up, I decapitate you with a telephone
pole.  (ok, so that's a slight exaggeration, but you get the idea)

> (Side topic... did we ever clear up using only one skill per round?
> If that limit exists then this discussion is stupid)

No.  But when you tackle, you get a free round.  AKA, you can use a skill.

> 
> Tackling is an exception to the rules. I get to use my tackling
> skill, knock your ass down, stand up and then multi-attack.
> Meanwhile you just lie there and the rest of the party (also
> engaged in more conventional combat) looks on in awe at the speed
> with which I move. Right then.
> 
> Or hey. I say to the GM. "If I make a check at 1 die higher can I
> not fall down with the guy I tackle? 2 dice?" I'd go for an extra
> two die check no problems. Then instead of having to stand up you
> can get a _GOOD_ sword swing in.
> 
> Can you tackle someone with your sword drawn? Or does it get in
> the way. does the tackled party drop their weapon? Or do they 
> remember how to hold onto their weapon while forgetting how to
> stand up?

Get a lanyard.

Depends on the weapon and the technique.  If I were running it, I'd give
extra dice depending on the weapon.   Pure common sense.  If you have a
shield out as well, I'd just give a straight up check.


> 
> > Fuck, Lyle, when you tackle someone you're completely expecting to end up
> > on your ass.  That'd make it a lot easier to stand up afterwards.
> >
> > ****************************************************************
> > *Joel Gunderson                             fooboy@laf.cioe.com*
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> >
> > On Thu, 13 May 1999, Lyle H Janney wrote:
> >
> > > Christ Jevan, I can't believe that you think it takes .8 seconds to
> > > stand.  The fifth movement rule cannot possibly cover standing
> > > up.  It is far easier to move 10 feet (assuming you are mostly
> > > unencumbered) when you are already standing, than it is to
> > > stand up after being forcefully placed on the ground (especially
> > > if you are at all encumbered).  You of all people should be looking
> > > to realism (i.e., drag your ass of the ground in less than a second
> > > after begin dropped during Bujinkan training; oh, yeah, and also
> > > take a few well-placed swings right after you've done so _and_
> > > have all that happen in 4 seconds.  Right....).
> > > 
> > > Lyle
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:	Jevan Furmanski [SMTP:furmansj@ecn.purdue.edu]
> > > 
> > > Jesus Steve, I can't believe that you think it takes 4 seconds to stand.
> > > The fifth movement rule clearly should cover standing up.  I have al
> > > ways seen it as covering momentary actions like moving 10 feet or joggling
> > > for line of sight.  You of all people should be looking to realism.
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 13 May 1999, Steve Ames wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > Ending up on your back doesn't mean much anymore since you can use a fifth
> > > > > of your movement to stand up.
> > > > 
> > > > ? The GM that allowed that goofed. Standing up is an action. It takes
> > > > four seconds just like swinging a sword. This is a power-gamer abuse.
> > > > 1/5 movement refers only to your base movement rate. I believe the
> > > > writeup says as much.
> > > > 
> > > > Standing up, while movement is not part of your "base movement". Swinging
> > > > a sword is "movement" but you wouldn't try to say its "base movement"
> > > > would you?
> > > > 
> > > > This is one of the weakest abuses I've seen in a while. Everyone doing
> > > > it had to know it was wrong and you just closed your eyes to powergame
> > > > better. Sick, sad world.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Standing is just a convenience.  People can attack from the ground in AQ.
> > > You seem to be concentrating on one particular and ignoring the topic,
> > > which is the free round given by tackle.  Can someone tackle another and
> > > knit for 4 seconds?  Does their "base movement" double since they get a
> > > new full round that the guy's friends just stare and gawk?
> > >  
> > > > The original proposal and writeup can be found at:
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.cioe.com/~khelek/aqmail/msg01195.html
> > > > http://www.cioe.com/~khelek/aqmail/msg01373.html
> > > > 
> > > > If you can stand up using only 1/5 of your movement rate than
> > > > hell, you've always been able to stand up and then move the
> > > > other 4/5 right? Wrong. Think.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > There is no always Steve.  The new rules are constantly being tested by
> > > the people that show up.  Realism only occurs by adapting the rules in a
> > > gaming situation.  Spending four seconds to stand up is idiocy.  Think.
> > > 
> > > Jevan
> > >  
> > > > 					-Steve
> > > > >
> > > > > ****************************************************************
> > > > > *Joel Gunderson                             fooboy@laf.cioe.com*
> > > > > *CIOE/Winstar/iCi Technical Support              1-800-947-2463*
> > > > > *MCS Technical Support                             312-803-MCS1*
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> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 12 May 1999, Steve Ames wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't forget that the tackler starts his free round laying on the ground.  
> > > > > > > There are very few skilled actions other than wrestling I would allow from 
> > > > > > > this position.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Hence "dirty blow". I agree.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >Look at it logically. In combat, people are "combat ready". A simple
> > > > > > > >tackle is no longer enough to knock someone to the ground. You must
> > > > > > > >grapple to throw them to the ground. And then they are certainly not
> > > > > > > >going to be so suprised that you get a free round or even a free
> > > > > > > >action.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here I must strongly disagree.  Tackling skill is just that...skill in using 
> > > > > > > speed, momentum and force to drive your opponent to the ground.  If you are 
> > > > > > > skilled in it, the fact that they see it coming, or are comabt ready has no 
> > > > > > > affect whatsoever.  Looking at it logically, a fullback with the ball tucked 
> > > > > > > under his arm as he goes through a hole is "combat ready", a skilled TANG 
> > > > > > > will still paste him.  Surprise has nothing to do with the free round 
> > > > > > > bestowed, it's the fact that the opponent suddenly finds himself flat on his 
> > > > > > > back gazing at the stars, when the blow lands.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > With all due respect the fullback isn't carrying a sword.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 						-Steve
> > > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> >
>