Re: Mods (open discussion)

[Wright Frazier <khelek@ns1.cioe.com>]

> However, in regard to high combat mods:
> 
> 1) Most preceding examples tend to indicate skill or magical ability will
> negate mods.
> 
> I agree.
> 
> 2) A high mod's greatest utility is the ability to hit the Gargoyle, or
> the CDV 44 warrior (with magic resistance).
> 
> (keep reading, before you respond, folks, I hit lower-end mods in a bit)
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> Yes, going toe to toe with creatures/actors/characters with obscene DV is
> dumb.

Not really.  It depends on how the creature is being played.  I've seen
a creature with a 30ish CDV, 20 CM, d20 damage, and 400DP buzzed down
by _1_ warrior with no backup beyond the rest of the party dorking
around with the other baddy(not nearly as heinous) or plinking at the
ubermonster ineffectually.

This warrior had a CM in the mid to high teens, CDV of 26ish, 60 or
so DP, and a weapon skill of 16ish.  It took him awhile, but he killed it
with no help.

So its not necessarily dumb to go against such a creature, and he did
come out battered a bit, but he did come out on top.

> 
> This makes a straight-up warrior nearly worthless against them, and
> completely undamaging, UNLESS he buys his mod sky-high.  (therefore being
> a pretty damn high rating character) 

40dp = rtg8.2
long sword 15 = 14.4
CM 15 = 9.6

rtg32.2 and he is a complete and utter killer.  I also consider that
midrate as you can reasonably expect to get to that rating in less
than 6 months, esspecially now with GM'ing xp for planned adventures.
Granted its a cookie cutter warrior with no dimensions, but if you
are looking for a pure killer, then you hit it at rtg32 and then
expand your concept from there.  If you are a dwarf you get that nifty
+4CM against armored folks, for even more deadliness against humanoids.



> 
> Such entities are designed to make it difficult for ANY one character to
> whack them, and even damaging them would take a powerful character  (i.e.
> a pretty damn high rating)
> 
> Ex:  whipping around finessed R12 earth spells, R12 priest spells, etc.
> 
> Wait a minute, A GM throwing a darn-near-impossible-to-kill-with-any-kind- 
> of-direct-confrontation actor against a party ... UNHEARD OF!
> 
> Such a creature is DESIGNED to be a pain in the ass.  Any GM that has
> wipped out such a baddie that the party HAS TO kill is a poor GM.

Not at all.  Sometimes it WILL be a loose/loose senario.  Hell this
past weekend I ran a complete fuck adventure.  The party walked into
a shitstorm, knew they were walking into a shitstorm, and I completely
and utterly reamed 1 of'em.  There was nothing kind or truely fair
about it.  I was a dick.  He however knew it was a possiblity of happening
and he still walked into the situation knowing I was going to play the
actors in that way.  He still had a great time from what I can see, as
did others.

While they may not seem terribly pleasent at the time, hopeless situations
are one of the most enjoyable to escape from if you feel you've earned it.
So yes, sometimes the big megabaddie has to be hauled out and the party
reminded that they are indeed mortal(in some cases).  I don't see this
as a being a 'bad' or 'poor' GM so long as it is well played, and if
the party DOES triumph, they are suitably rewarded.  May be not instantly,
and may be not in obvious ways.  But again, if its played well, it is
one of the most rewarding of roleplaying senarios.

> 
> To extend the argument that MODS are there to make it possible for a
> warrior to go toe-to-toe with such a creature is also poor reasoning.

No, thats exactly one of the reasons, because it makes for a GREAT story
and rememberance.  Epic, in my opinion, is Good.

The best scene in the Silmarillion by J.R.R. Tolkien was when Fingolfin,
High King of the Noldor, in a fit of hopelessness that the Noldor were
destoyed, he jumped on his horse and stormed Thangoradrim.  He stormed it
alone, and there called Morgoth out to fight.

He died, but not before he hurt Morgoth, and cut off his foot.  Then Morgoth
crushed him like a grape.

To get through the armor, shield, and defenses of a god, you gotta be
a freakin monster with the Mod.  This is why warriors have such things,
so they CAN go into the epic battle with some hope of if not killing,
then at least wounding it so others can get at it as well.

I say having Mods there make it so folks _CAN_ go toe to toe with the
bigggest and the baddest since AQ's skill/combat system does not
allow for any other combat paradigm.  

> AND, why should I use skill to increase my to hit, even if I can split
> dice, when I can rattle off an extra attack that will ALSO be +10?  Two
> attacks at +10 are FAR more devistating than one attack at +12, or one
> attack +2 to damage.

Because sometime you need more than a +10 to hit.  Sometimes you need
a +20 to hit, and you can't get that from skill.

> 
> Regardless, 
> Extreme DV (20 +) are there to circumvent people with mods from hitting.
> (as those without CAN'T hit a dv = 20)

Sure they can, if they roll a crit.  A crit is always a hit, but not always
a hit, and I've had to rely on this many a time as both a player and a GM
cause sometimes its worth taking the chance.


> 
> Therefore DV greater than 30 or 40 is there SPECIFICLY to deal with the
> sword-toters with high MODS
> 

Nah, if I want to deal with the sword-toters with high mods, I'll
blue field them and kill their buddies piece-meal.  Or I'll get
many Archers.  Or I'll do the truely unthinkable and use player
tactics on players and fireball the party three times.

> 
> Now,
> 
> IF, we want to have a more human(oid)s as villain trend in GMing (brought
> up as one of the benefits of Gelelia, an existing strength in Centralia,
> and all-around good idea for Rugtero),
> 
> IF, we want to make the warrior's skills more attractive,

They are already VERY attractive.

> 
> IF, we want a warrior skill to be the only non-magical means of elevating
> our character's DV's above armor,
> (yes, I know Dodging is Marine)

I don't get how this at all relates to Mods.

> 
> IF, as a rule, actors (extend this to characters) should not be based
> around brute force, but rather finesse,
> 
> Should we not reconsider the effect of MODS?

No, I disagree.  It would require a complete reworking of MANY things.
Not the least of which are how monsters work.  I personally don't
want multi-attacking monsters with a d20 attack since you'd have to
give monsters some ability to hit.

Granted personally I'd like to see the disolution of mods and just
run things PURELY off of weapon skill but we'd have to change a WHOLE
lot of things and make a lot of people get rid of some items and its
just not worth it.

Wright



> 
> 
> John Hogg					johnhogg@expert.cc.purdue.edu
> I'll tell you what I've learned today!  I've learned Nature can be cruel ...  
> BUT I CAN BE CRUELER!!!!!!    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
> 		-Ren Hoek	"Lumberjerks"	The Ren & Stimpy Show
> 
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