Re: A couple of things.

[Greg Mowczko <mooch@ns1.cioe.com>]

Some spew on part "b" of his post as through other posts. Note I have not read
any of the "No" posts apparently on this subject yet.

> From: Wright Frazier <khelek>
>
> First, elementals don't have a 'body' as per the chart in the book.  There
> 	is nothing to cast the spell on to rework.  No muscles to improve,
> 	no synaps(sp?) goo to speed up the transfer rate of, no eyes to
> 	alter to gather more light, etc...  It is just sentient
> 	air molecules possessing life and spirit.  No body, no soul, except
> 	in this case where he kept his some how.

Actually it cannot be sentient air molecules. Molecules = body. The reason
he has a soul is you can't get rid of your soul ( GMs can "somehow" ).

> 	So my first argument is that, by the book, he has no body to change.

Correct

> Second, mutate has already been ruled to not beable to make 'magical' changes.
> 	i.e. you cannot mutate for resistance to charm, for magic shield,
> 	for silver shield, etc... and a elemental is a purely magical
> 	creature.  It does not exist on 1 plane(read the spirit armor
> 	monster ability), has magic shield, and all sorts of nifty
> 	other 'magical' abilities.  Since you cann't give a normal
> 	creature magical abilities, how can you change a magical
> 	creature further abilities with a spell that doesn't help
> 	with magical things?

I don't believe you can get magical abilities but I don't see how that should
stop one from affecting magical creatures. It is a rank 14 spell that works
on creatures. And an air elemental is a creature.

> Third, changing the fundamental makeup of a creature sounds like a
> 	hell of a lot of power to me.  Does that mean with 2 or so
> 	mutates I can make myself adamantite(1 for the change to
> 	adamantite, #2 to make it flexible so I can move)?  I
> 	don't think so, thats just a bad idea.  If we start letting
> 	people completely and utterly alter what they are fundamentally
> 	made of we are opening up a whole nasty ass can of worms.

I believe if you changed into a adamantite creature you still can't move.
And once you became movable through animation you become damageable.
You first would have to transmog into a rock golem to then be mutated. Or
you need to be transmoged into a golem of adamantite ( which can't move as
it is ). If you are an elemental I would think that you are a spirit that
manipulates the appropriete elements to give your self "body". If the
elements aren't there you can't utitilize them. If there was a poison cloud
of gas I would let the element incorporate it into him. The question then
becomes how much air can you play with? Transmog says you need to keep to
your same size so your volume is set ( but you can change this by loosing
pressure I guess since your "body" is gas ).

> I personally thing it should be limited to creatures with a) a physical
> form. b) with DNA.  Otherwise I can easily forsee the changing of
> every watermage into an indestructable adamantite golem.  Granted that'd
> be kinda nifty, but not for long.
>
> Wright
>
>
> > The way I always saw mutate was that it couild only bring about changes
> > that could occur in nature.  These would be non magical (natural), and
> > seemed to be dependant on DNA.  If we expand our scope of mutate to be
> > independant of DNA, then maybe whether the change is "natural" can still
> > be adhered to.

Changes in nature sure.

> > If an air elemental's air is taken away, what happens?  Is it a spirit
> > manifested as air, or a spirit that can only travel in air and manipulate
> > it?  One means that his body can be consumed by a natural fire, and that
> > he has a finite volume, the other means the spirit just moves through air
> > and could exchange bodies with a cloud of poison at will. 

If you toast enough of his air he goes bye-bye. I would make sure that the
air I manipulate didn't burn ( too bad we don't know enough about the oxygen
in the air vs. other gases, its just air ).

> > Instant death scenerio #1, the air elemental mutates to be pure nitrogen,
> > and crawls down the windpipe of the target, suffocating him.
> > Not poison, but deadly none the less.

You blow him out of you.

> > > Given what you heard... no. But understand this... up until now everything 
> > > that has been mutated has been
> > > A living creature with DNA. We have never applied this spell to a spirit 
> > > which manifests itself as air molecules, or rather a mix of  gas molecules 
> > > which are in the proportions of air.
> > > 
> > > I believe given this... there would be 2 possibilities. If the spell really 
> > > modified DNA, it would not work at all on him. If we broaden our internal 
> > > definition to something more akin to what the spell might have been 
> > > intended as, it can re-adjust the relationship and proportions of the 
> > > molecules making up its target..... he could concentrate all the oxegen at 
> > > one spot, and the nitrogen at another. Now, since our adventures do not 
> > > have this concept of gases, at least this specifically, we could say they 
> > > could not control this.......
> > > 
> > > Given this one might be inclined to say he could simply change the 
> > > proportion of existing gases that make up his"body", as those more coporeal 
> > > mutatee's are having changed the proportion of bone, blood, skin and other 
> > > tissues making up their bodies.
> > > 
> > > I understand this action is pretty out in left field,,, so I am interested 
> > > in hearing your opinions on the subject. At the moment I have already 
> > > brought up the .... If you are going to start using poisons a lot, so are 
> > > the actors... which is a legitimate convern, so he is not likely to even 
> > > try this.... But I would rather make a more firm determination in this 
> > > case.
> > > 
> > > 							Dan
> > > 
> > > Wright
						Greg